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  1. #211
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    There's always some people that want to be the reason we can't have nice things.

    Excellent solution, though.
    "No matter where you go, there you are."

    AKA:
    Beatrix Washborne "A rabbit? In the wastes?"
    Clint/Clara Dimitriaski "That cat."

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    1,070

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    I sped the buzzards up a little bit, but I also made them phantom. This should stop them from breaking your HUDs, without detracting from the challenge.
    The Fool is the spirit in search of experience. He represents the mystical cleverness bereft of reason within us, the childlike ability to tune into the inner workings of the world. The sun shining behind him represents the divine nature of the Fool's wisdom and exuberance. On his back are all the possessions he might need. In his hand there is a flower, showing his appreciation of beauty. He is frequently accompanied by a dog, sometimes seen as his animal desires, sometimes as the call of the "real world", nipping at his heels and distracting him. He is seemingly unconcerned that he is standing on a precipice, apparently about to step off.

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ft Stygian
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    138

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    Thanks for yer work Neo. I think the cool down timing solution seems equitable. If yer alt(s) can't put in a little time running the sands salvaging they deserve a little time ding. It took me 7 minutes to reduce my time to 12 hours (if you discount the 4 minutes I spent at the Healer cause BOMB). Also now that a clearly written warning has been issued the "I didn't know it was a bad thing" excuse can't be invoked more than once. And tonight's Buzzard Battering took place against a wall where there was usually a good possibility of HUD breakage..it didn't break and the Buzzard is no more. So thanks again Neo.
    Meat is meat and we all gotta eat..

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Apophenia, Malady Bog
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    Hmm. What exactly differentiates a Difficult quest from a Normal one? I don't want to spoil the wonderful surprise of anything, but... I had one that VERY nearly killed me, despite only being a little ways into Burnt Oak. It was way more deadly than any other one I've done before, but it was apparently only normal.
    Whatever shit Wastelanders do, however dirty or bloody or batshit random it is, it comes right from our gritty, fucked up little hearts, and that's beautiful.

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    MutantikA
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    i think i got a buggy crate.
    it sayed it was supposed to be difficult but i had no negativ effect at all.

    this is what happend:
    [06:57] Alden rummages through a crate of blank papers full of clean cut circular holes.
    [06:57] Alden pulls out a single sheet and begins feeling the holes on the paper.
    [06:57] Alden: , we had to stash a box over in Burnt Oak, be helpful and grab it before someone else does.

    This is a DIFFICULT mini-quest, you have 20 minutes to find the crate in the region Burnt Oak and return it to Alden. I suggest you pack a medkit or two.
    [06:57] Wastelands Hud: Delicious!
    [07:00] Alden Quest Crate: This crate REEKS of foul smells!
    [07:01] Alden: Hey, thanks for your help in this matter. Please take this
    [07:01] Second Life: Alden owned by NeoBokrug Elytis gave you '2014-10-03 Alden Daily Quest' ( The Junkyard (118,200,73) ).
    i eaten sharktooth candy to make sure the medkids had any effekt if i realy needet some.
    however i lost no hp at all and got no dot.so when i did not catch rustmouth from that crate i guess nothing happend
    I eat your Face.

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,070

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    Don't read this post if you don't want Crate quest spoilers.













    Each different type of crate quest is difficult in it's own way, but the same general principal applies to to all the crate fetching quests.

    First a random region is chosen, this is the biggest factor that determines how difficult your quest really is. The longer you have to run, the more opportunities the crates have to inflict their quirks on you. Getting a crate from Cormac extends your run time and gives the crate more opportunity to inflict it's misery upon you.

    There are six quirks each difficult in their own ways. Some quirks are just easier than others, and I intended for it to be that way. The easiest quirk is the heavy crate, since it doesn't really hurt you, and only just slows you down. For that your only enemy is time, and 20 minutes seems ample enough for everyone. The most predictable crates are the radiated ones (warm), since they just do a steady flow of low level dots. The most unpredictable one is the gassy ones. They're very random as to when they will go off, and since they're poison it hurts a lot.

    When a quest is DIFFICULT, a portion of how the quirk behaves is intensified. Either it procs more often or the proc is stronger. Since there's six quirks, each one behaves differently.

    The random nature of the whole system makes some quests inherently easier than others. If you have a difficult bomb at the far end of Cormac you're going to have a tough time getting it back before it pops. Gas crates are really random, but the odds are in it's favor since you're going to be carrying it for such a long time. Bees/Wasps, radiation, and the critter are all survivable if you're prepared -- but even on normal difficulty they're going to take their toll. The heavy crate is just heavy, and pits the clock against you more than any other crate. If you most of your time looking for it, only to find it with 3 minutes left, odds are that you're not going to make it back in time. Any other crate is almost doable from Cormac with 3 minutes left.

    Region x Quirk x Difficult == True Difficulty.
    The Fool is the spirit in search of experience. He represents the mystical cleverness bereft of reason within us, the childlike ability to tune into the inner workings of the world. The sun shining behind him represents the divine nature of the Fool's wisdom and exuberance. On his back are all the possessions he might need. In his hand there is a flower, showing his appreciation of beauty. He is frequently accompanied by a dog, sometimes seen as his animal desires, sometimes as the call of the "real world", nipping at his heels and distracting him. He is seemingly unconcerned that he is standing on a precipice, apparently about to step off.

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Apophenia, Malady Bog
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    Also spoilers!













    I think you're missing the point? The gas ones are TOO unpredictable. You can sorta say whatever you want about procs, but just... look at the last two posts. I had a normal difficulty gas crate, barely halfway into Burnt Oak. And here's my own log:

    [2014/10/02 19:18] Alden: , do you know where Burnt Oak is? Head there and bring a medkit just in case. There's a nasty box that we need to have. I'm sure there's something good inside.

    This is a mini-quest, you have 20 minutes to find the crate in the region Burnt Oak and return it to Alden.
    [2014/10/02 19:21] Alden Quest Crate: This crate stinks of something foul!
    [2014/10/02 19:21] Alden Quest Crate: You choke on the noxious fumes!
    [2014/10/02 19:22] Alden Quest Crate: You choke on the noxious fumes!
    [2014/10/02 19:22] Alden Quest Crate: You choke on the noxious fumes!
    [2014/10/02 19:22] Alden: Without your efforts, we'd be in serious trouble. Here's something for your time.

    FOUR gas DoTs. In less than one minute. Barely one sim-length away. Then Ccindy has a "difficult" one in the same place, and it did nothing.

    I am really struggling to understand why you don't see our issue here. If you have something "difficult," and it's supposed to be more likely to do damage (or cause more damage when it does,) how in the hell does it make sense to have a long run, all the way from Cormac, and not trigger at all? If you have something "normal," and it's supposed to be less likely to do damage (or cause less damage when it does,) how does it make sense to have a very short run where it triggers four times? Even if it's "random," that is so unlikely as to be completely unbelievable.

    Just... pretend you're us for one second. Pretend someone told you "There are normal quests and difficult quests. Apo got four gas DoTs in one minute, and she only had to run from the near end of Burnt Oak. Ccindy got no gas DoTs, and she also ran from Burnt Oak. Which person had the difficult quest?" Don't think about procs, because we don't know what those are; don't think about code, because we don't script. Just think about the words, and say which is "easy" and which is "hard" based on the difficulty each person faced, and what words mean.

    If you are trying to have different difficulty levels, but your parameters are set up SO randomly that a "Difficult" quest can do no harm at all, while a "Normal" quest can be fatal, that's just... not logical. That's not what those words mean. Those parameters are not set up in a way that creates two different, distinct, mutually-distinguishable difficulty levels. There should not be any uncertainty, any confusion, over who had a "hard" quest and who had an "easy" one. The rewards that are received for a normal quest should correlate to normal difficulty and normal hazards. Mine was so challenging that a "normal" reward felt slim. I'd guess that Ccindy's was so easy that the "difficult" reward felt undeserved.

    The risk/reward balance is just way, way off-kilter on gas crates.

    Is it possible that you actually just have the Normal and Difficult modes -swapped- somehow for gas crates?
    Last edited by Aposiopesis; 10-03-2014 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Correcting region names.
    Whatever shit Wastelanders do, however dirty or bloody or batshit random it is, it comes right from our gritty, fucked up little hearts, and that's beautiful.

  8. #218
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    Apr 2008
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    MutantikA
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    i been to burned oak .. but besides that .. yes i think like apo just wrote.
    well i actualy thought it was a bug caus nothing at all happend on my first dificult run.
    I eat your Face.

  9. #219
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    Apr 2008
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    Apophenia, Malady Bog
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    Gah, misread yours. Edited for accuracy!
    Whatever shit Wastelanders do, however dirty or bloody or batshit random it is, it comes right from our gritty, fucked up little hearts, and that's beautiful.

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Quick-Halt Convience Store
    Posts
    145

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    I died in Cormac from radiation from a bomb crate, got teleported to Fissure after death, then received a 4 minute suspension because my HUD became detached somehow in teleport. Using the latest Firestorm x64 viewer.

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